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Britain's "surveillance society"

Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 2:17 pm
by sam
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070523/tc_ ... illance_dc

LONDON (Reuters) - It could be the 4 million closed-circuit television cameras, or maybe the spy drones hovering overhead, but one way or another Britons know they are being watched. All the time. Everywhere.

The latest gizmo to be employed in what civil liberty campaigners are calling Britain's "surveillance society" is a small, remote-controlled helicopter that can hover above inner city streets and monitor suspected criminals.

Unveiled in the north of Britain this week, it could be introduced across the country if deemed a success, fuelling an already intense debate over whether the "Big Brother" world George Orwell predicted is now truly upon us, or whether such scrutiny is merely essential for security in the modern era.

"For us, this is a cost-effective way of helping to catch criminals," said Simon Byrne, a senior police officer in the Merseyside district who launched the spy drone project.

Britain is now the most intensely monitored country in the world, according to surveillance experts, with 4.2 million CCTV cameras installed, equivalent to one for every 14 people.

So blanketing is the surveillance that the average resident of London runs the possibility of being photographed up to 300 times a day just moving around the capital, civil liberties campaigners Liberty say.

The pervasiveness of the cameras, combined with the government's plans to introduce digital identity cards for all citizens in the coming years and expand its DNA database, has led to calls for a halt until the impact can be better studied.

In a report issued earlier this year, the Royal Academy of Engineering warned that increased monitoring of society actually risked provoking a breakdown in trust between individuals and the state, eventually causing more harm than good.

"The state should remain the ultimate protector of citizen rights to privacy and should not garner new powers to invade the privacy or increase surveillance without strong justification," it said in a study filled with carefully measured language.

"SOCIAL SUICIDE"

As well as civil liberty campaigners growing increasingly alarmed at the tightening web of surveillance, some police officers have also expressed concern, saying excess monitoring is disrupting otherwise tranquil communities.

The deputy chief constable of Hampshire, a leafy county west of London, said this week he feared Britain was becoming an Orwellian society, with quiet villages now wired with cameras.

"I really don't think that's the kind of country that I want to live in," Ian Redhead told BBC television.

The conundrum for many is that while they don't want to feel constantly under surveillance themselves, they don't mind demanding the benefits of CCTV if it might do some good.

When the Cutty Sark, a famous 19th century trading ship, went up in flames on Monday in a possible arson attack, the first call by angry citizens was to urge on the police to study footage to see if any perpetrators could be spotted.

Perhaps the greatest perversity about the explosion of surveillance is that experts say it doesn't necessarily do any good. While crime has gone down in some areas, studies show that it's seldom due to the presence of CCTV cameras. In fact, there is evidence that cameras can provoke more criminal behavior.

"If people start to feel they are constantly under surveillance, the feeling of being watched starts to create the behavior that the surveillance was there to prevent," said Kirstie Ball, an expert in the impact of surveillance on society and a professor at the Open University Business School.

"Once you feel the screws are being turned, that your every move is being pinned down, you actually start trying to find ways to get around what's become a pervasive system."

An irony is that while most people don't want to feel monitored or observed by a government, many will reveal lots about themselves on Web sites and reality-style TV programmes, getting titillation from what would otherwise be an irritation.

Yet ultimately, she worries that the breakdown in trust that can be created between individuals and the state by excess surveillance is the greatest long-term worry.

"It can actually make for a slow social suicide," she said.
Having just watched V for Vendetta and Hot Fuzz and thinking back to Children of Men, 1984, etc., I have to wonder.

Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 6:42 pm
by James
It is pretty creepy knowing that, pretty much wherever you are in London, you're on CCTV somewhere. And most of the major city centers as well.

All that is not quite as scary as the ID cards, which will serve no real purpose other than to give too much information to the government.

What I think they're starting to realise is that the country is grossly overpopulated, esp in the south, and they're finally starting to do something about that. I had it a bit tough but not compared to what they're going to do in the future, and if they get more border control like they say, well, they'll be taking it seriously. But too many people in such a small place makes em go crazy, and the proof is out there...

But then part of me says "one more year until I can apply for citizenship, get my UK passport, and move somewhere else in the EU". Like Malta.

Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 6:55 pm
by eebs
We'll have webcams surgically implanted by then i reckon. Along with a fine collector... wake up in the morning to a print out:

- Drunk and Disorderly Behaviour - £100.00
- Urinating in a Public Place - £15.00
- Providing Evidence of a Crime + £10.00
- Providing Evidence of a Crime + £10.00

- We've got your pin number, thanks for the £95.00.

:roll:

Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 8:05 pm
by Dalya
i cant wait till the chip implanted in my hand is directly linked to my bank account, so when i want to buy something i just grab it and walk out of the store while sensors scan my chip and the products. ill never have to wait in line again. and itll be so easy to go into debt.

cctv scares me.

Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 9:32 pm
by ifihadahifi
cctv scares me.
*zooms in*

You don't look scared.

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 6:47 pm
by eebs
i cant wait till the chip implanted in my hand is directly linked to my bank account, so when i want to buy something i just grab it and walk out of the store while sensors scan my chip and the products. ill never have to wait in line again. and itll be so easy to go into debt.

cctv scares me.
I'm scared by someone chopping off my hand and going on a shopping spree with it :?

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 7:23 pm
by Irock
cctv scares me.
*zooms in*

You don't look scared.
HAAAAAAA.

Really good one. :)

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 7:29 pm
by ChrisLovesYou
cctv scares me.
*zooms in*

You don't look scared.
We are the dead.

(I think I heard someone say that in a movie or something once.)

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 8:22 pm
by monet2u
ID cards are handy if you get hit by a bus and happen not to have a stitch of ID on your, you're just gonna be a John/Jane Doe. I don't mind having a driver's lic. or a state ID card. I feel....registered with it. and BONUS if it's a good picture! haha

whenever I walk by a camera I just pick my nose or scratch a(n intimate) body part. :lol:

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 9:01 am
by Dalya
ID cards are handy if you get hit by a bus and happen not to have a stitch of ID on your, you're just gonna be a John/Jane Doe.
if you dont have any ID on you, how do you have your ID card on you?

and if you dont have your healthcare card on you, they wont take you to a private hospital, so whats the difference? plus in texas, everyone with a drivers lisense now has to get fingerprinted, so they can still figure out who you are by fingerprinting you and then locate your family.

i see no benifit. i already have a passport and a social security number and a drivers lisence. i dont want them all to be the same document because theyre not the same thing and not everybody needs all of them.

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 10:23 pm
by sam
[quote="Dalya"]...and if you dont have your healthcare card on you, they wont take you to a private hospital, so whats the difference?...quote]

Any hospital that accepts medicare/medicaid has to accept patients in need of emergency care regardless of their ability to pay. Maybe the law gets broken, but you shouldn't need an insurance card.

The issue with national ID cards isn't your right to drive or access to emergency services. It's the ability of the government to track the movements of anyone at anytime for any (or no) reason. Embedded RFID would make that very easy.

Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 11:03 am
by Dalya
Huh, really? I always thought that if you're uninsured they take you to the nearest public hospital and that's the difference between private and public... What IS the difference then? Just more expensive?

Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 9:01 pm
by eebs
i'd guess that anything non life threatening won't get treated unless you pay the $$$ that would have been covered by insurance.

Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 4:25 pm
by sam
i'd guess that anything non life threatening won't get treated unless you pay the $$$ that would have been covered by insurance.
Exactly, for non-emergency services with no insurance, you have to pay out of your pocket or qualify for state medicaid or sit in the county hospital waiting room until you problem does become an emergency. Without insurance, they are still going to treat your heart attack or whatever, it's just that you'll have a $40k bill waiting for you.